Ep. 18 - College and advocacy with Mars and Indigo Giles
#18 I'm 100% biased that this episode's guests are the best ever: my kids Mars and Indigo Giles!
We cover it ALL:
⚡️doing cool advocacy stuff at the Texas Capitol
⚡️navigating college while trans
⚡️getting started in activism as a young person
⚡️the role of allies
PLUS: cameo appearances by ladybugs and motorcycles.
You can reach Indigo on Instagram @indigo.jasper and on Twitter/X @bunnyindigo and you can reach Mars on Instagram @_meetmeonmars and on Twitter/X @meetmeonmars_
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Equality Texas
TENT (Transgender Education Network of Texas)
ACLU Texas
OUTreach
SHIFT
Hook ’em Arts
Veterans for Equality
Austin Lawyers Guild
”Country and western” reference
Seinfeld reference
GoFundMe
Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund
Everyday Trans Activism is a production of Parents of Trans Youth, a social impact business providing learning, support, and community to parents and caregivers of transgender, nonbinary, and gender-diverse kids.
Host Mandy Giles (she/her) is the Texas parent of two transgender young adults and a fierce advocate for trans kids, their families, and the transgender community.
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
Mandy: Hey y'all and welcome to Everyday Trans Activism. I'm your host, Mandy Giles. My pronouns are she/her, and I am the parent of two transgender young adults and the founder of Parents of Trans Youth.
Today's guests are my kiddos, Mars and Indigo Giles. I am exceptionally excited for these guests because they are my oldest children. Mars and Indi are both nonbinary. They are twins, and they are 22 years old. I am so incredibly proud of both of them for so many things. And just one of the ways that they are super cool is that both Indigo and Mars have done work around trans rights and equality. So listener, buckle up because I have a feeling it's going to get emotional, at least for me. I've got Kleenex ready. I hope I do. We'll, we'll see if it's somewhere. But y'all, I'm so happy to have you here. Welcome.
Indigo: Hi, good to be here.
Mandy: Thank you for taking time out of your busy young people's schedules. So feel free to introduce yourselves better than I did. So tell me a little bit more about yourselves.
Indigo: Yeah, My name is Indigo. I use they/ze pronouns. I am a recent graduate of The University of Texas at Austin. I don't know why I said the full government name, but there we go. I feel I have to be all official on the podcast. But yeah I just got my first real adult job, so I'm living, laughing, loving that. And other than that, yeah, that's me. I have the best mom in the world.
Mars: I think I have the best mom in the world.
Mandy: okay. Okay.
Indigo: of course.
Mars: Yeah.
Mandy: Okay. Mars introduce yourself.
Mars: Yeah, Hi, I'm Mars. I use they/he pronouns. I am a student at the University of Texas at Austin. Still there. I'm taking an extra year to finish my degree because I transferred in my junior year. So I gotta catch up on some stuff. Yeah, I don't know what else to say.
Mandy: Okay. I don't have a lot of or any get-to-know-you questions. Cause I know you really well. And because this podcast is about people who are working for trans rights and trans equality, let's start there and see where our conversation goes. So you both have different journeys in, in kind of your involvement in, in different ways.
And so I want to hear about those. Indigo, why don't we hear from you first, just because your journey kind of got rolling first. I guess talk about maybe how you got into activism. Whatever that looks like for you.
Indigo: So obviously you're very familiar with the start of my story there because you were very integral to it.
Mandy: I was there!
Indigo: yeah, but honestly, I think like in a way it kind of goes back even farther than that because I was already kind of having this impulse at that time for community work. Like that was really, a drive that I was having.
So right around,
Mandy: And when was this?
Indigo: This was 2021. So this was also around the time or spring 2021, I should say. So this was around the time that I was forming the plan to start my service organization. So I had like ad hoc, like organized some, like, volunteering events with just my friend group and I was really looking for these ways to get involved in the community and so we're kind of laying down the building blocks for, like, what this org would turn into, and then,
Mandy: And this is a campus org, right?
Indigo: Correct, yes, this was a club at UT that we started and then, so at this time, you know, this is the kind of stuff that's boiling in my brain. And then you, my mom, you came into town for my birthday. Took me out for a lovely birthday dinner. And then you were like, well, I can't stay too long. I have to be at the Capitol in the morning. And I said, what? And you explained everything that was going on. It was, I think it had to have been one of the sports bills at that time.
Mandy: Yeah.
Indigo: and so, Ooh, a ladybug just landed on my window. What a good sign. Um, sorry.
Anyway so we talked about that a little bit. And I remember just being like, wow, that's so cool. Like go mom, because that was the year that you and dad were back and forth, like up in Austin all the time. And so I remember you talking about like, well, there's like, if I'm going to be here anyway, there's no reason for me to not go. And then you came back the next day and were just gushing about like the whole process, how amazing it was. And obviously like, it doesn't feel great to have to be there, but like the community that you found, the people that you met, all of that was really great. And so I think the next week, another one came up and I remembered that conversation and I thought, well, I'm here, so I should go.
So dad and I went together to testify on the Senate floor, and I told my story in front of, I would say the whole Texas Senate, but unfortunately a lot of them left at that point, so it was not the whole Senate, but it was,
Mandy: Well, was it, was it a committee, maybe?
Indigo: Oh, you're right, but it was still part of the Senate
Mandy: Okay. But still!
Indigo: Yeah.
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah. On the floor is pretty intimidating.
Indigo: that was, it was a big one. They were in the fancy chairs. And, and I was like third that day.
Mandy: wow.
Indigo: And then dad had to go like convince an aide to like move him up so that he could go right after cause his testimony was like really connected to mine. I think we wrote them together maybe. But yeah, kind of, as they say, the rest is history.
I went to the Capitol many, many, many more times that session. And got involved with a bunch of the orgs there like Equality Texas, TENT, ACLU, kind of the whole nine. And was kind of learning the whole way because I kind of jumped in just with this kind of like righteous, like, this is my life, so I have to talk about it. And then I was kind of learning about like everything else that was involved, learning about the legislative process, all of that.
And then in 2023 I was a little bit less available to be involved in the lege session, but I was still doing as much as I could from home.
And that summer I worked as an intern for Equality Texas for the summer. So that was also a really cool opportunity to see kind of like the other side of community organizing, especially kind of in slightly more joyful times. And yeah, that's it. So that's kind of my story on that. It wouldn't have been possible without you.
Mandy: I have a feeling you would have found your way there, just knowing that almost literally blocks away from where you were living on campus, there were legislators talking about your community, the trans community and people, you know, one year away from you when you're younger and, and their rights to do things like play sports and get healthcare and use the bathroom and change your birth certificates and all that kind of good stuff that those bills that come up every year. Okay. So, cause I want to talk about a lot of this stuff kind of together too, but Mars, let me hear your story and how you got involved.
Mars: This is also enlightening for me because I had kind of forgotten that you were first. Like you started doing Capitol stuff first. I thought Indi was, went to Capitol first.
Mandy: It was like by a day or a week or something.
Mars: Yeah, well, I mean, like, because for context during this time in 2021, was it? I was in Massachusetts at my previous university. And as we know, politics are a little different there. And that is one of the reasons why I ended up transferring which if you think, if you, without the explanation, it's a little bit like, Hmm, that seems backwards. Why would you go back to where it's worse?
Mandy: People ask me that all the time and like, why did they come back?
Mars: Yeah. And sometimes it's hard to explain. And sometimes I do think like, like it is safer up there in some ways, but also like being up there and watching you guys fight for our rights was very empowering and motivating. And I wanted to be able to do the same because I, we have a certain level of privilege being white and then like mom and dad being cis and all that.
And like talking about Texas politics while you're in the Northeast is weird because a lot of people didn't care. Like Like I would talk about it and be like, oh, well you're here now, so it's fine or like, you know completely write us off, you know, like oh everyone there is a bunch of rednecks and they deserve what they get because they vote for that and it's yeah like specifically, I remember like during the big freeze, a lot of people were talking about how we deserve it because of who we vote for.
Not like people that I knew personally, because I surround myself with better people than that. But just in general and like, again, like it's hard to get people to care when you're in that bubble. And also, like I found that the Northeast is still bad sometimes. Like the rural areas have Trump signs everywhere.
Like, it's not just down here. It's just quieter up there. So that, with the, along with, like, I was feeling homesick, and, like I felt like I didn't have a lot of the same opportunities that I wanted to have. I transferred and I wanted to get more involved. And so that was in 2023, so I was a lot later than you guys into the game. But not by much, yeah, I guess, but, and, and that, I transferred in the spring semester, so I was thrown immediately into the lege session.
Mandy: And for, for listeners who may not know in Texas, the legislative sessions are every other year for 140 days. Woo-hoo.
Mars: and it's in the spring, so I got there, had a little bit of time to settle, and then Mom and Dad started coming up again to do the Capitol stuff. And so I started going with them. Didn't get to go as much as I wanted to. Cause obviously I was a student and doing student things.
Mandy: As one should - thank you.
Mars: as, as much as I did go to class.
Mandy: unlike Indi to go testify.
Indigo: I was doing quizzes, like in the Capitol basement.
Mars: Yeah, and so like Indi said, that was also when they, that year they were more busy. So it kind of felt like it was still like a trade-off, I guess. I started doing stuff. And I feel the same way, like I think you said that earlier, but like having that community of people there, like being at the Capitol the first time was the most trans people I have seen in a room ever. Even, even in the Northeast. And even though, like, all of my friends were trans. Like, having that was so beautiful, and we were all there for such an awful reason, but we were all there, and that's, you know, what mattered. So that's kind of like, I'd already decided that this was something I wanted to be doing with my time, but like, being there for the first time was like, yeah, this is it.
And Mom was there that time, the first time I went. So I think the first time I tried to testify, that was the time they kicked us all out.
Mandy: Yeah. Or was it the one with the where they cut off the test cut off testimony at midnight? Yeah.
Mars: And we did a die-in.
Indigo: Oh, I was there for them.
Mars: Which we didn't actually, oh yeah, yeah,
Mandy: you were, oh, yeah. That you came a little bit later. Yeah. So you didn't have to be there for 17 hours or whatever.
Mars: Yeah, we, yeah, we were there like all day.
Mandy: Hmm.
Mars: although I think I came a little bit later than you did, because you were there all day, it was a whole thing.
Mandy: Yeah. It was a long, long day.
Mars: It was, a long, day. But, and then, now that the session is over, we've been doing some stuff here and there, like, like Indi said, I joined the, the service org that they started. Go OutReach.
Indigo: Woo.
Mars: if you're for some reason a UT student listening to this, join OutReach like doing stuff with them. And then this past fall, there was the whole DEI business at UT, which if you don't know,
Mandy: Yeah. Tell me
Mars: I don't even know how to explain.
Mandy: Well, yeah. Yeah. Cause I'd like to hear y'all's experiences cause I think there are a lot of people who Well, there's a lot of people, it's hard to explain, which again, is kind of the point of a lot of these bills that they're confusing and then create confusion and chaos and fear.
And so a lot of people overcorrect and we've seen that with medical bans with clinics shutting down prematurely. And so with DEI, I don't know, Indi, can, can you describe the, the bill and what happened or do you, do you have that knowledge?
Indigo: Yeah. So I don't know the exact language of the bill itself. I don't think I bothered to ever actually go in and read the literature. But I was pretty intimately involved with the process because right when all of that was happening was when I stepped in as president of OutReach.
And we were a partner org with the Gender and Sexuality Center. So I was very involved with figuring out what was going on, how it was affecting us, how it was affecting the school, all of that and there's actually one point where I spoke on a panel at the ACLU Texas meeting with star lawyer Brian Klosterboer. So I definitely felt a little out of my depth. But even then, like he was talking about the legal side, and I was kind of just talking about like, okay, here's what students are dealing with.
Mandy: Yeah, to, to, to back up just a little bit, I'll, I'll just, I know enough about the law that basically this law says that no state funding can be used at public universities for DEI programs, offices, employees it, and the, the trickle-down effect has been phenomenal, just devastating, not phenomenal, I guess that offices
Mars: Phenomenal in the worst way.
Mandy: Yeah. yeah. Offices are being closed. People are being fired. The, the kind of loophole is that student organizations can exist, but they are very underfunded. I mean, they're student orgs, and so they can't get money from the university. And so, there's so many things that this affects that I think people didn't even think about.
Indigo: The first thing before we get farther into this, I do want to say for listeners, again, if there are any college students listening to this or any parents of college students. I really want to be clear, like we're about to sound kind of doom and gloom about this, but I want to say the communities still exist.
They cannot legislate us off of these campuses. It'll just be a little bit harder to find the resources because that's what they want, but they're still there. There are student orgs that are being made every day that are doing this work. So find them, join them, love them, promote them. We need it. Being said,
Mandy: that's a good point.
Indigo: I want to make sure that I've weaved with a little bit of hope here. But yeah, cause I don't know as much about the actual terminology of the bill. I do know about its impact. Because as you said, there's sort of like an overcorrection that happened. Where the bill was written in the 2023 spring session and so I know, like, my experience with it is kind of relative to the GSC at UT but I know it was affecting obviously schools across Texas, but from what I know, the GSC had to change a lot of things, including their name to become compliant by January 1st.
So they made all the necessary changes. They were compliant with the language of the bill, and then they still had to dissolve by the end of the school year because of that overcorrection. And so even when they just had to change their name, like that made it so much harder for those resources to be accessed because people know where to find stuff at the GSC.
I don't even remember what they were called, like the Women's Community Collective or something.
Mars: It was Women's Community Center.
Indigo: So. Like still, you know, that's obviously a very important thing to have also, but it's purposefully obfuscating things. And then even that couldn't stick around. And they canceled, or at least ceased university funding for all of the cultural graduations.
So I'm not sure if they still did First Gen graduation. I don't know if that was affected. But they canceled Black Grad, they canceled Latinx Grad, they canceled Gradu-Asian and they tried to cancel Lav Grad but luckily the alum,
Mandy: And Lav Grad stands for …
Indigo: That's the LGBTQ Graduation, sorry, I'm just too used to the hip lingo but luckily the alum organization was able to, like, swoop in and provide funding so that we could still have something.
But yeah, it was just a mess. Like you said, the loophole is that student orgs aren't affected. As long as they're not like directly like partnered with and funded by the university. So like, for example, our org, we're affiliated with UT. But we're not funded by them. So we're able to do everything as normal.
And I think that's what for a while, I don't know if they're still doing it, but that's what the GSC did was they transferred all of their student staff into a student org to basically continue running all of their resources as like students which is amazing. I'm so proud of them for doing that.
Like it's so difficult and obviously the pro staff was still like around to help out, but they all got laid off. There are so many faculty members and professors and other jobs that got cut because of this overcompliance and it's just all about fear and it's about making things harder.
Mandy: Mars, do you have anything to add to your experience with this kind of stuff on campus?
Mars: I mean, I have pretty much the same experience as Indi for the most part, but I'm also a part of like, another side of campus that was affected, which people don't think about how this thing affects many different sides of campus than just the one they're targeting. Like I work for SHIFT which is I don't think it's actually an acronym but it's where the mission is to shift the campus culture away from substance use and like, taking a harm reduction mindset. But Shift is in kind of in like the division of student affairs which was dissolved. So
Mars: a lot of people got fired,
Mandy: Like, we're not going to support any students.
Mars: Yeah. And in that like department and even orgs like Shift, we were like, what does this mean for us? Like, cause part of the mission is to like literally on the website and everything says like our mission is to be inclusive of everybody like with making mocktails and with, creating the discussion around substance use, like, we want to be inclusive of everyone in all stages of wherever they are in their journey on that. And it's like, does that is that too? Is that included in DEI? Like, we don't know, because it's so vague and weird that it's kind of like we have to be safe and maybe not talk about it as much. So it's like, it's, it's weird.
And it is like, at least with the students, it's like, no one really knows what's going on, but it's a small comfort when I talk to this, like, staff members who are like adult adults and not students. They also don't know what's going on.
So it's, it's kind of like, at least we have the comfort in that it's just some, like, two people at the top, for legal reasons, I cannot say. That is a joke. It's, it's just, it's a lot.
Mandy: Yeah, that, that would be very unsettling especially cause do you still not know what's going on? Like you going into this semester?
Mars: Yeah, I mean, like, we haven't, they've been, like, looking into it, and so I think, as of right now, we don't have to change anything.
But it's, like, and the department is, like, shift is still there and stuff. But it's kind of, like, Anything could be next, you know which again, it does sound very doom and gloom.
Mandy: yes. And I think that's, it just is an example of how, gosh, a lot, but how the legislative actions and then, you know, the directives from Abbott have, well, the, the, actual impact that they have, like the intended impact is bad enough. And then the unintended impact of these things are all just a mess as well. So, yeah, that can be really difficult.
I'm wondering about being young adults, youngsters, not quite youths. And being at the Capitol and being around people. And I'm just curious what that felt like. Like Mars, I, I still like when you, when you've said that you went into that room because whenever there's a big hearing the equality organizations will reserve a room where queer community and allies can all hang out together and, and just for community, but also like to be safe. And so to see you walk in and like, Oh, my people, you know I'm so glad that you had that. And I'm just curious for both of y'all how it felt to be kind of on the younger side of the people running around the Capitol and testifying and doing all the things.
Mars: I think it’s cool. Like, you know, people talk about like on the internet and all that but there's a reason you don't see older queer people like as often and so seeing so many of them is beautiful, you know and then also like
Indigo: I was gonna say I was just talking to my roommate actually about this. We were both talking about how excited we are to age and to show signs of age, like what a privilege that is. Like we're both really excited to go gray. We're excited to get wrinkles and everything because so many people before us didn't get that.
And I think, Oh but one of the things I said was like, as young queer people, like it is our responsibility to grow old. And so seeing people who got there, who did it, who beat the odds is amazing. And seeing such a range of like, just talking to people there and, you know, hearing like, what people are doing.
Like, we have like policy advocates and elementary school educators and tattoo artists and theater performers and so many other things. Like these are people that not only made it, but they're making actively an impact on the world every day in their own way. And then getting to envision us like joining that is so amazing.
Mars: And adding on to the whole responsibility thing, I feel like it's also our responsibility to be there at the Capitol fighting if we can. Because, I think about the people who way back when who did that for us, and the reason why we can be in there and making it even better for the people after us, is important.
Indigo: Yeah, I remember, especially like during 2021, like that session there are times where it was really, really hard to keep up the fight to keep going to protests and to keep going to hearings. So I'm sure it was the same in 2023. I just was less involved, so I felt it a little less like personally and like viscerally.
But 2021 was just an onslaught. It was like being hit by a battering ram, and we were the door just over and over and over. And what kept me going back was kind of that feeling of responsibility of like, especially for like the position that we were in at that time of like, it was so fresh for us.
Because of like the age that I was at at the time, I was just barely not a minor anymore. So just out of the scope but close enough to where it was still like very, very real. And also like there are so many kids that just couldn't go and tell their stories because it wasn't safe. And so I kept thinking like I have a responsibility to like be here.
For like the people who can't but then also, I'm so sorry if you heard a motorcycle. Living in campus is crazy. Anyway also like I was very comforted every time. And I got that strength back from the knowledge that my community would be there and that I wasn't going to be alone and that everybody there got it.
I remember one of the long, long days where we were there until I think like three or four in the morning, we had been pushed into like an overflow room for an overflow room and just waiting and waiting. And I remember walking around the room going up to a group of basically strangers. But I knew, like, I knew why they were there, so I knew them, you know what I mean?
And I said, I really need a mom hug right now. And all of them just immediately, like, dropped what they were holding. And just, like, swept me up. And so, like, part of that was also, like, being a young person there. I felt very safe knowing that so many people were especially so many like parents that were allies were going to be there to step in and step in front of me if things got gnarly.
So, shout out to the parents. They're, I think that's kind of like an underrated not underrated, but like less talked about kind of aspect of like, obviously like advocating for your kids is really important, and I'm so glad for that too. But in those kind of times where it's important for the kids to share their story.
Like being there as like literal, like safety is also really important. So I was really grateful for that aspect too. So yeah, it was a very unique experience, like being kind of the young guns. I don't know if it was the same for you, Mars. Cause by the time you got in, you were a little bit older. We were officially in our twenties at that point. So it might've been a little bit different, but I imagine it was pretty much the same.
Mars: it's pretty similar, yeah.
Mandy: Well, you brought up a good point about safety and I wanted to talk about both for both of y'all, since you've experienced being at the Capitol in some pretty heavy situations, some pretty volatile situations and I wanted to talk a little bit about just being a college student in general, because a trans college student colleging while trans because a lot of parents have concerns about their kids, you know, out in the world and like what happens when they leave after high school and, you know, just a lot of things. So I, I want to make sure that we touch on that as well.
But before we do that tell me a little bit about being at the Capitol and how yeah, and just the, the safety, whether that's from just in general or your identities or who you are or with the group you're with, or tell me about your experience, Mars, do you want to say anything? Cause I know we were there in some pretty, pretty, tough days.
Mars: Yeah. Like, I'm thinking specifically about the day that they forcibly removed everybody. I don't remember what bill that was. I don't remember why we were there.
Mandy: It was for the gender-affirming care bill ban. And it was, I think the first reading on. I think it was. I can't remember whether it was a House. I should know this. I think it was the, the House reading maybe. Yes, yes, it was because I'm thinking who was in charge. Yes. So it was, it was the House. So we got there a little bit late, but,
Mars: Yeah, we got there, and we got in, and we, like, were in the we didn't actually go into the room, like, the floor,
Indigo: I'll also real quick, I want to put in a trigger warning
Mandy: Oh, thank you.
Mars: Yeah, police violence.
Mandy: Yes. Thank you. And we, if, and I should have said, if you are not comfortable talking about this, we don't need to talk about it.
Mars: No, no, it's okay.
Mandy: We can talk about it in it, in whatever way makes sense for you.
Mars: yeah. So trigger warning, police violence, just violence in general. Yeah. So we were in the like rotunda and the, I don't, I don't remember if there was an inciting incident in the, on, on the floor.
Mandy: It was in the gallery of the House chamber and people started chanting and they had some kind of banner and that's what, like you're not, according to the rules of spectators, you're not supposed to do that. And so instead of just removing those people, then the speaker of the House decided to clear everybody.
Mars: yeah. And so then a lot, a lot of DFPS Texas Rangers, police,
Mandy: cowboy hat guys,
Mars: cowboy hat guys. If you're not from Texas, it's just, it's the cops that wear cowboy hats. And also the bike cops were inside. Cause they were using, first of all, we were like, this is silly, but they were using their bikes as barriers, I guess.
But yeah, they, crowd control. Yeah, they were expecting violence to happen. And as we know, that means violence will happen. So they started clearing people out. A couple of our friends got violently arrested. And then, and that also kind of ended one of our friend's political, like activism careers because it was so traumatic. So that, yeah, like stuff like that does make me feel really unsafe. But again, like having the community there is helpful in that regard. And also for most things we had the veterans there, the, the queer veterans.
Mandy: yeah,
Mars: As our like protective detail, which you, if you don't know, it's a group of veterans queer veterans who are usually are like security detail for our, just our entire group when we're at the Capitol. And they're very good.
Mandy: They do stuff like all over Texas - Veterans for Equality. Like they're at a lot of pride festivals and parades and are, are just, they're, they're great. Yeah.
Mars: It's a good source of protection without having the like cop, I don't know how to, what's the word. I don't know what the word I'm looking for is. Image, whatever, connotation. And even though, people got arrested and it was violent and bad having everyone there, immediately people were following them to the jail and calling lawyers and Equality Texas has, like, connections with lawyers in Austin and I think most, probably most cities that they're in. So there's that element of, like, there's a support system for, we always wish that stuff doesn't happen, but it obviously it can. So having that in place is really integral to feeling a little bit safer. And there's also support systems similar on campus. A little less so I think like that are so streamlined, but we don't need to get into it, but like the violent stuff that happens on campus is also scary, but the most recent stuff was not about trans rights.
Mandy: something else.
Mars: another awful thing.
Indigo: I remember.
Mars: if you have anything else to add
Indigo: Yeah. I came to one of the Capitol events that happened shortly after that. And I remember I was coming from either class or work, I think either way, I was coming from campus. So I was meeting y'all there. So I took the bus by myself downtown and then walked in and I remember, like, at that point, we had been, like, we knew what had happened.
And it was kind of like the worst-case scenario, like something we had never even dreamed of. But the good thing is that the teams that we were with were so prepared for not only like how to respond in that situation, but how to keep us safe following that.
Like knowing like, okay, this is the level of escalation that we've reached. And this is, this can happen again. If it's happened before easily can happen again. And so I remember I went in, I'm pretty sure I had the Lawyer's Guild number written on my body somewhere in Sharpie. I turned off face ID on my phone so that it couldn't be opened without my consent. We buddy-systemed the whole way around the Capitol.
There's other measures that were taken that I'm forgetting at this time. Oh, there was also like posters in our room of like notorious faces to watch out for. Like there are some notorious like counter-protesters that were escalating to the point of like dangerous, like unsafe situations which that happened, wasn't there like somebody, like one of those people was trying to like trick you into letting them into the room?
Mandy: Yes. Yes. And I feel like that was, I'm trying to think what day that was. Yeah. But yeah, they were so like, oh, I'm looking for so and so, and I was like, wait a minute, you look familiar. Hold on. And I went in and her picture was on like the
Indigo: wanted poster.
Mandy: Queers’ most wanted. Yeah. And so so I talked to one of the Veterans for Equality people and they talked to somebody, I think at Equality Texas. And they were like ma'am, you are not welcome in here at all. Like, please go away. And the, the infiltrator person, not me. And but yeah, it's all sorts of weird stuff. Like there was one group, I think that same person was part of this, but they were trying to, like, recruit somebody in the queer community who was there to testify, like to come over to their side and, it was, it was just weird, like weird, weird stuff. So, yes, so I think the buddy system is really important and just be like being aware of who's around you and definitely, unfortunately, definitely buddy system for bathrooms are using, there's a couple of single stall bathrooms in, in the Capitol as well.
Indigo: kind of what I was thinking first, like. Colleging
Mandy: Yeah.
Indigo: like the stuff that we're talking about, like with activism kind of boils down to like, we keep us safe. And I really think a lot of that extends to college as well. So like, like I was talking about on student orgs, finding resources that's a big part of just kind of like knowing what's out there so that you can work within these kind of community networks.
Mandy: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.
Indigo: and there's just also like the idea of safety in numbers is very real. Even if it's like, not necessarily like a military tactic or something, it just psychologically is better to be surrounded by your community than to kind of feel like you're alone. So I think in that aspect of safety it's really important.
But in terms of kind of like practical stuff like obviously doing your research on a school before you get there is really important. So like in the process of finding colleges to apply to and going through that whole selection process, making sure that they have those resources available.
Like all the better if they have like school provided resources, like if they're very publicly, you know, pro-trans, like that's a really great thing to hear. But even so,
Mandy: Remember those, those questions we had on college visits, but what did, Mars do you remember what we asked? It was like our litmus test questions.
Indigo: I don't even remember.
Mandy: what resources do you have for the queer community or, or like something about it was something very pointed to, so we could see how they would answer.
And that one college we went to, they're like, Oh, those people have like a room, I think in that building over there. We're like, Hmm, no.
Indigo: Do you remember?
Mandy: perhaps this is not a good one.
Indigo: It might've been the same school, but the person who was like, yeah, there are football players that do theater. And I was like, I was like,
Mandy: We accept all kinds here.
Indigo: Country and Western, but anyway so if schools respond like that, maybe don't consider that maybe consider other options. But I know that's in itself kind of a privileged take. Like, sometimes there aren't that many options. But again, like doing the research beforehand to find those student orgs to find even just kind of like community groups, like there are group chats. There are things like that. So that you can ask people ahead of time, like which dorms are, you know, safe for us.
So like asking people who are there who know. And then what really helped, like both my roommate and I, when we were living in the dorms our freshmen and sophomore years we were lucky enough to be placed in a dorm that had a private bathroom. And that was really, really helpful for us because we didn't have to kind of like deal with any of the unsavoriness of kind of like figuring out what to do in a public restroom.
But I know that, again, that's not an option that's available to everybody.
Mars: Which I don’t think it’s fun
Mars: It's not a fun time to do regardless of gender.
Indigo: I did it for a few years in high school. Not my fave.
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, go ahead,
Mars: Communal bathrooms should just be abolished in general, I think.
Mandy: Yeah. Or, or, or done in some way
Mars: Done differently.
Indigo: We cannot keep, as a society, keep worrying about athlete's foot this much.
Mandy: yeah. Well that, yes, that, that's another, another
Indigo: separate from all the other reasons that it sucks. Like if this is as much of a problem, like maybe we should start thinking of different solutions.
Mandy: Yeah. Or like people putting gross stuff down the sink or like not flushing.
Indigo: somebody ate a banana in the shower one time. I found the peel.
Mandy: they ate a banana? This sounds like y'all know what I'm going to say. There was a Seinfeld episode about that, that Kramer just like lived in the shower and he would, like wash his food in there and just like,
Mars: Sometimes I feel like people might be doing that, because I find food in there. Often.
Mandy: maybe multitasking. I don't know. Yeah, eating their salad while they're, you know,
So Mars, I was telling somebody about when you transferred In the middle of the year and how it was a little dicey because we weren't quite sure where you were going to live until like the day before you moved there. And I was telling someone about how at first you were going to be paired with a random roommate. And then lo and behold they had a single available for you. What happened to make that happen?
Mars: Well, I already had insider knowledge that the dorm, like, Dobie, the dorm that I was gonna live in, had singles because one of our friends had lived there but also when I was going through that process I got like, because they transferring in the middle of the semester is weird in, like, leases are the whole year.
So it's kind of like, so like I applied for housing and then they were like, actually, we don't have room for you. But this building we just opened has room. Do you want to live there? And I was like, okay, sure. I need a place to live. And then they, so they sent me in there like, here's we'll send you roommate information soon. And I was like, cause I'd already done the random roommate situation at my previous school and it ended up working great. My roommate there was wonderful. But I know it does not work out great for everybody. So in my response email, I don't like to say the trans card, but I did
Mandy: Let's say you're, you're advocating for yourself there.
Mars: which is true. Like I did. I was worried about feeling safe. So I emailed and was like, hey I am trans and I would like to live in a single for my safety. Or at least have my own bathroom. That was most important to me. Because a lot of times if you have your own bathroom like maybe sometimes you'll be like, I don't know whatever but I was like, I would like to be by myself because at that point I didn't have anyone I could be like I knew who who I could could be my roommate.
And they were like, oh sure we could do that for you. Which is great. I I think they had them available anyway, but like It's always like when you get a good person, they'll do that for you. And I think at the time there was people you could reach out to to help you. Now it's a little bit diff more difficult with the whole, like we've said, the DEI thing. But I imagine there are ways around it.
Mandy: Yeah. Like there's a, well, yeah, I, I hope so. I sure hope so.
Mars: Which I guess if again, if there are UT students perspective, ut students listening to this, Dobie 21 is not a great building, but they have singles. They have singles. And if that's the most important thing, because for some reason, across the other dorms, there's like two singles total. It's kind of weird.
Mandy: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They don't.
Mars: which is one of the reasons why I was so nervous about it. But and I think UT does not require you to live in the dorm freshman year.
Indigo: No. Yeah. There's
Mars: So it doesn't, yeah. Yeah, so if you that like that's also an option. That wasn’t an option for me because it was the middle of the semester and leases are weird in west campus because they all go by the school year. But having if you have the privilege to do so having an apartment is also, you know there are studio apartments and then also like like we said there are places like online like there are Facebook groups for the new incoming students and stuff and there was a transfer one for me.
Indigo: that's how I found my roommate.
Mars: or you can find people Yeah.
I was like, that's how you found yours.
And you can kind of, there are probably ways to get around it without being like, posting on Facebook, I'm trans and I need a roommate. You could kind of, there are other ways to get around that. But you can at least find someone you've, that will be safe for you, you know, whatever. And that, like, even without the apartment, that helps for dorms too. So if getting a single isn't an option. And they had that at my previous university too, so it's not just UT that does that. So like, wherever, for parents and kids, I guess, if kids listen to this, I don't know that are,
Mandy: Well,
Mars: There are ways.
Mandy: I didn't even think about that. I always forget that y'all have the Facebook groups. Especially for incoming students or Facebook or whatever groups because that's not something that someone my age would have had. And so maybe someone around my age or parent-type age that is their kids are, are launching, maybe going to college or whatever, they wouldn't be thinking of that because, because they didn't have that. It was just like,
Mars: yeah, that is an option.
Mandy: you got your roommate's information on a piece of paper and you either called them or wrote letters, and I would literally wrote letters. Literally wrote letters, like not even email.
Indigo: Something else I was talking about at work today, funnily enough in kind of a similar vein is like if kids are like moving to a different city.
Mandy: Mm,
Indigo: like college or not if they're leaving the nest going somewhere else. There are similar Facebook groups for, like, just citywide groups. So, like, if you're just kind of, like, moving somewhere else and hoping to find friends, hoping to find a community like, obviously, connecting with, whatever that place's, like, version of, you know, Equality Texas, or TENT, or, all my references are Texas specific but, those kinds of things, that's a very great start, but then also there are groups for, like like, I just joined one kind of funnily enough for women in Austin.
And I kind of felt like an imposter, but my coworker was like, they sell furniture on there sometimes. I was like, I need furniture for my new apartment. But there also is like groups like that for like queer people to like, just make friends or like talk about stuff.
Mandy: There's social things. Yeah. Like I've seen queer sports leagues like I know some who belongs to a like a cornhole league, so it doesn't have to be, you know, like softball or like, you know. Well, I don't know why I said that that way, but like, serious athletic sports, but
Mars: the gay sport. A
Indigo: like playing rugby.
Mandy: yeah, I mean, you know, it could be anything or or like remember the the group that Meghan Just a social group for people to just like get together and meet people and yeah, just finding community. I think that's a really good point that you can find it in so many different ways or, or I should say different ways, not only college or, or, you know, maybe a traditional kind of way.
Okay. I know I have, I could obviously talk to y'all all night. And I'm not going to. So I have taken up a lot of both of your time. So I wanted to, well, one thing I did want to ask before we wrap up what advice would you give to youngish people who wanted to get involved in working for trans rights and trans equality?
Indigo: I would say there are so, so many ways to get involved that there is always a place for you. There's a place for your skillset. There's a place for your comfort level, all of that. Like a lot of, obviously because it's the public side, a lot of what gets publicized and like put out there and the stuff that you see is the very front facing stuff of like, you know, doing interviews with newspapers and speaking at rallies and stuff like that.
And so like, I can see how it would be kind of easy to think like, that's all that, like, that's what activism is, you know? And so I want to like, make it clear that like, yes, like for me, that was perfect. I'm a theater kid. Public speaking is in my skill set. So I was ready. But there's always, space for people who don't like being in the public eye also or can't but still want to help out.
So for young people who maybe have been thinking about it and want to get involved, but have been kind of, you know, like nervous because of that public aspect. There's always ways to get involved. Talk to again, those local like equality organizations, coalitions, talk to them to figure out ways that you can help out.
There's always fundraising. There's always emails to send. During lege sessions, you can write testimony and submit written testimony without ever having to speak in front of somebody. You can make zines to publish resources. Like there's so many other things that I can't even think of off the top of my head.
So I want to like, just emphasize that the barrier to entry is lower than you think. And we always need what you have. There's no such thing as a skill that we can't use. And we'll never be hurt by having too many people. So, and it's also, there's no such thing as too late. You know, there's, it's always the right time.
Whenever you're ready is the right time. So that's what I want to say.
Mandy: Hmm. Good point.
Mars: lot of my stuff is similar, like I was gonna say a lot of the same stuff but also
Mandy: related yet? Okay.
Mars: hmm, perhaps. But also like, just go to things. Like, I know it could be hard, and it's a lot of times easier said than done but like, we're saying like, go talk to these people, but like, you don't have to have a previous relationship with anybody.
Like, people show up to the Capitol all the time while we're there, and they just are like, what are you guys doing? And then and you talk to those people and that, and then, you know, create those relationships and, you know, interacting on social media and stuff. Also, like, sign up for things sign up for newsletters, you know, do all that stuff.
Mandy: Hmm.
Mars: cause a lot of times just showing up and being there is helpful. Like, you don't always need to be, like Indi said, like on the front lines.
Mandy: Yeah. Yeah. Cause we need people everywhere. I guess that would be, would y'all, I know I said that I'm taking up too much your time, but you're my kids. So I'm going to ask you one more question. What would you say the same thing for allies? Is there a different place for allies?
Mars: Oh yeah, it's honestly better for allies to be on the front lines sometimes. For that, you know, privilege of being treated better by politicians or cops or anything. And then, People say this like at, when we go to like protests or at the Capitol or whatever, but it's like, we are tired, like trans people, POC, anybody who's been fighting for their own rights and has been doing it for so long, we need the people that we need the people in power to see that it's, everybody is upset about this, everybody is affected and it is important for it to be more than just us. You know
Indigo: I'll add I think for allies, especially like, yes, it is. It's often really important for allies to hit those front lines, be that shield. But I also, and that can be like literally or metaphorically, like kind of whatever the situation demands. But I also think it's really important for allies kind of especially parents, but any allies that are present to remember to be a megaphone. Like they are there as amplifiers, right? Especially in those situations for like speaking for people that can't for one reason or another because of safety, because of circumstances, whatever it may be. And like, it's not like, as kind of harsh as it sounds to say this, it's not about you.
Mandy: Oh, that's not harsh at all. I say that all the time.
Indigo: it's not about you. So, but we do need you. So remembering to kind of listen and learn. Everything's a listening and learning opportunity. And so just going in with that kind of like very humble mindset, I think is really important of, even for me, you know, I go and like, I think it's a good thing for everybody to have, but especially for allies, like going in with this mindset of like, I do not have like the sum total of all of the knowledge there is to know about this, like, I am here to do my part, but I'm also here to learn and I'm here to help, right?
And so like listening, really taking those cues of like, when it's your time to step up, and then when it's your time to step back, I think is also, that's an important one that may be a little less obvious. Like there might not be people, you know, be saying in your ear, like, Hey, let's step back now. But just kind of feel it out, see what the other allies around you are doing.
And yeah, I don't want to make it sound like, you know, it's not about you, so don't go there. Cause like Mars was saying, like having like anybody join in any capacity is really important. Like one of the most impactful things for me, anytime we do one of these big events at the Capitol is just like the visual of how many people support us and are there for the same reason. And so even just being a body in the crowd is huge. And that kind of ties back to like, there's always ways to do stuff.
Mandy: both of y'all were saying that the first step is just to show up and be as, as I like to say, like be a warm body. Be just be, be added to the count of people who are showing their, their support and their love for their trans loved ones and the trans community as a whole.
Okay, I really am gonna let y'all go to bed now because I'm your mom and I know y'all need to get some rest. So thank you so much for talking with me today and coming on my podcast. So where can people find you if you want them to find you? Where do you want them to go? Are you promoting anything right now? Give me the scoop.
Mars: Indi, do you want to go first?
Indigo: yeah. Let me find my, I can't remember my Instagram handle.
Mars: It's IndigoJasper.
Indigo: So if you want to find me I post a lot of pictures of me going to the Renaissance Fair on my Instagram at indigo.jasper, so you're welcome to give me a follow there. I have a Twitter, but it's pretty inactive so if you want to go look at old retweets of articles that I was quoted in you can find that too.
And what I'm promoting right now is mutual aid. I think it is so important. Like I was saying, we keep us safe. It's so important for us to look out for each other as a community. So GoFundMe is a big one. I always recommend just browsing GoFundMe or looking on Instagram for local folks in your community that need help with housing or need help with, you know, resources, especially folks that need help with getting gender-affirming medical care and especially, especially young people of color need that help the most. So really looking out for those ways to support monetarily if you can, and if you can't support monetarily, amplifying those pages is always a good idea. Can never hurt. So that's what I'm shouting out.
Mars: Yeah. Similarly, you can find me on Instagram at underscore meetmeonmars. My Twitter is meetmeonmars underscore.
Indigo: Ooh. Okay.
Mars: cause meetmeonmars was taken on both sites. Which, yeah. Yeah. There are other Marses in the world. And I do post a little more on Twitter than Indi does. But it's mostly retweets. Whatever. And then I also second mutual aid stuff. And then also along with trans people mutual aid, it's always a good idea to go look through anything on there for Palestinian people trying to get out. Also the PCRF, the Palestinian Children's Relief Fund, is a good place to donate as well. For that.
Indigo: Also, if you're at UT, join our org.
Mars: what I have to,
Indigo: And shout out Shift.
Mars: Join Outreach. Yeah, shout out Shift. Also join Hook'em Arts. That's the other org I'm part of, but it's not service-related. It's arts-related. Do that.
Indigo: If you're a gay theater nerd, join Hook'em Hearts. Arts.
Mars: Go.
Mandy: There might be some listening. I'm not sure. Okay. I will include all of that in the show notes. And thank you so much. And listener, if you would like to show gratitude for Mars and Indigo and the immense amount of time we have taken on this show. Podcast and their work and their knowledge. And just cause they're fabulous people. And I am 100 percent totally biased. Please consider looking for mutual aid causes to donate to whether that's trans-related or Palestinian-related PCRF. And if you are a UT student, look up Hook’em Arts, Outreach, or SHIFT. And those will be all wonderful things to get involved in. Okay chickadees. I'm going to let you go. Thanks again. And I love y'all so much.
Indigo: Love you!
Mars: Thank you for having us. Bye!
Mandy: Bye.